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Mister Beacon Episode #70

Beacons Empowering the Disabled

May 01, 2018

Gavin Neate has made several careers out of helping others. After ten years of service in The Royal Air Force, he spent 18 years as a Guide Dog Mobility Instructor. Then he founded Neatebox, building on his knowledge and experience of working with those who are visually impaired. Since starting Neatebox, he has launched two products using beacon technology, ‘Button’ and ‘Welcome’. Both aim to help in the day to day life of the 13 million people with disabilities”. In this episode, we talk to Gavin, see the apps in action, find out about their impact, how they work, how to get involved … and as always, what kind of music he likes.


  • Narration 0:07

    The Mr. Beacon podcast is sponsored by Wiliot, scaling IoT with battery free Bluetooth.

    Steve Statler 0:16

    Gavin, welcome to the Mr. Beacon podcast, I am really delighted to have you on I've been following what you've been doing for years now. And I. So you have been amazingly successful at using beacon technology to help people to help people with disabilities. And so and that is non trivial. As someone who's tried and failed to do that myself, I'm very interested in how you have got adoption and persuaded people because everyone says they want to help but everyone's busy. So let's let's talk about you Neatebox, your company button and welcome your offerings. And I'd love to hear some your story and lessons learned and that sort of thing. So first of all, thank you for coming on the show.

    Gavin Neate 1:06

    It's an absolute pleasure to be here. You get offered to talk to somebody on the other side of the world, via technology and, and you're quite obviously going to jump at it. But beacons is something that I've been involved in from before they were called beacons. In fact, I didn't even know what a beacon was. In fact, nobody knew what a beacon was when I started doing this when your Bluetooth was, but I'll start I'll start from scratch because it's worth telling the story from scratch. So I joined Military Police in 1986, I became a police dog handler. I did it for 10 years, it was a Royal Air Force. And I then got posted to a place called RAF leuchars, which is just north of Edinburgh in Scotland. And then in the last two years of my time in the RAF police, I was looking for what I might do at the end of that, and just up further north from where I was, was a place called forefoot and forth it was the home of Guide Dogs for the Blind, which is seeing eye dogs or seeing guide dogs in the desert or wherever you have in the States. But I started doing voluntary work Guide Dogs for the Blind. Until eventually I realized, well, this is what I wanted to do. And I went along for interview to be a dog trainer. And they went no, no, no, we don't want you to be a dog trainer because they recognized actually that a lot of my real passion was with people. So I actually started I was working with people and wanting to work with people and enjoying working with people more than I was with dogs, although I still enjoyed the dogs. And it took it took me three years to do the training, I got the job, but was really lucky to get the job was 900 position or one position and 900 applications. So it was a real Yeah. But the two years of voluntary work was kind of what got me in there, I think. But anyway, I started working in guide ops the blind and I was working from 1996 onwards, and then around about 2003 2004. Or maybe even before that, as far as computers was concerned, I was never a techie. But I love games. And that was it pretty much. But I started learning about how to use computers. And we had to learn how to use computers. And then 2003 to 2004. I think it was around about then I started using or seeing my clients using GPS. And it was very early days, they had a palm pilot, which was as you might imagine, massive thing attached to them. And there was a speaker up here and then there was a GPS device up here. So they were walking around. But at the time, that was all there was and I was really interested in the fact that we're using it. And then I noticed more and more people using mobile phones. And I think the end 95 Nokia n95 was the first one where I really became aware that you could get speech package and attach it to the mobile phone. And I think it was about 300 pounds, which again, 450 bucks or something like that. And people were using that. And I was like well, this is really cool, because the future could potentially be more and more technology like that. And I was just interested, I was just interested. And then 2008 2007 2008 I became aware of iPhone, and I became an iPhone because of voiceover. And voiceover had been added into the iPhone three, I think it was three. And people were turning up to train with guide dogs. And they were just taking out their phone and doing stuff. And I was like I was talking to them. And I just became really excited because I thought this is a real change. The potential here is ginormous, and I needed to be involved. So generally speaking, I started doing tech talks on my classes for an hour. And the guys would turn up and they would all talk about technology and I was learning more than I was teaching. In fact, I wasn't really teaching anything at all. So I was learning about technology and games and all that and banking.

    Steve Statler 4:44

    Who's the audience?

    Gavin Neate 4:46

    Sorry, these were people who would come in to train with that with the guide dogs. Okay, so then two week course and I was teaching them how to use the dogs and it's worth pointing out, this is me. Back in the day. This was Looking very relaxed. And this is one of the guys I was training, we'll come back to this second, but.

    Steve Statler 5:06

    Somewhere in Edinburgh, it looks.

    Gavin Neate 5:08

    Just outside Edinburgh a place called muscle bro coast. And yeah, I was training the guys how to use guide dogs and they were teaching me about technology and whenever it rained, I would say let's do more technology and not go out and get wet. It's quite a lot of technology. But I kind of realized at one point that this was the future, technology was going to be the future. And in fact, just the other day, I was thinking to myself, if I took a dog to dogs, and I bred them, and I thought, what can I achieve in 50 to 100 years, if I wanted to breed a certain characteristic, and I put a lot of effort into this, the most I could do was turn that dog breed in the generations that I had, I can maybe improve it scenting it's fighting, it's biting, it's guarding or whatever it's shepherding, I could maybe improve it to a certain extent, but not by much. And then I thought, I wonder what we could do with technology and 50 to 100 years. We couldn't even think I could, I don't know anybody who would actually go yeah, in 100 years time, we're gonna be doing this. I can't even imagine when you consider Moore's graph and what we've done since the 1970s, and 80s, or over the last five years, it's just insane. So I became more interested, I got myself an iPhone, because that was the that was the piece of kit that people were using at the time. And I just practiced with VoiceOver and I got more adept with it. And then I started thinking, I wonder how I could utilize it. And one of the things if we go back to that picture for a second was, how does somebody who's visually impaired when they arrive here, right? They get to the pole to press the button, fella behind me. So how do they press the button at the crossing? And I thought, well, wouldn't it be good if the phone did that? That was it. I didn't go, I've got I've got solution. What can I fit it into? It was like, I wonder if I can press the button, my mobile phone. And at the time, I was talking about Bluetooth and we did a study and it was like Wi Fi Bluetooth RFID NFC was in its infancy, I think when I was looking at this. And somebody said Bluetooth was the only way but it meant we had to do a handshake. So it meant you couldn't really do a route you didn't know, you were always doing a handshake to the actual crossing. And then that was 2011 November 2011. And in January 2012, somebody said to me, you know, this new thing that's coming out called BLE it'll be called Bluetooth 4.0. And I went with that work. And he went, we're gonna give it a shot. And by the September of that year, I think it was that year, maybe the year after somebody said, Oh, that's a beacon. But I was like, Well, I'm already using it. But I didn't know it was a beacon. If I didn't have a clue what it was, as far as I was concerned, it just meant I could press the button, the chip onto a board on a PCB, we opened this up in 15 minutes, we could take one of these, it didn't have it. And we could put our chip inside. So it's just a very, very simple wiring into the process so that as the person approaches the crossing their mobile phone presses the button, and it will just show it working seeing as well. Yeah, yeah. So it's called button. Yes. This is looking for pedestrian crossings. That's it found a pedestrian crossing.

    Steve Statler 8:03


    Gavin Neate 8:04

    If I now press that, yeah. Oh, you see, the one over here that started the sequence. And now it's on the Green Man.

    Steve Statler 8:15

    So how do I know? If so if I if I'm visually impaired, how can I use that interface?

    Gavin Neate 8:22

    I will and so many people won't know about this. But if we go into Apple again, this is this is why Apple is so brilliant for people who are visually impaired. We go into settings, go to settings and go to General. Click on general and you've got accessibility and there's loads of stuff and accessibility. But the very top one is a thing called VoiceOver. You turn on VoiceOver turn on the sound. Jas folder, dogs folder inclusion.

    Steve Statler 8:56

    What does that sound like with button.

    Gavin Neate 8:59

    So with button itself, if I needed dog steps folder, six opening button crossing is red button is being pressed I can press a button there and then it does it through that just pressing the button. However, it doesn't actually need to talk because it can do it automatically. So if I go into settings, yeah. And I turn on Auto button, press yes. And then put that in my pocket. As I'm talking to you, that light will come on in a few minutes time or a couple minutes time and it's the fun just pressing the button automatically. So all I have to do is approach the crossing get to the curb edge and just wait for the button to press the button and do the whole thing and then it will have an audible signal coming from the crossing. We've turned off the audible signal on here because it can be a complete nightmare when when you actually have the thing going on all the time.

    Steve Statler 9:59

    Yeah I can imagine if you're blind then or visually impaired, then not having to find that button is going to be a godsend.

    Gavin Neate 10:09

    Yeah, that's it. But when I got into this, I was thinking about visual impairment. But the more I spoke to people, the more I realized that actually, this was a bigger problem for people who are in mobility scooters, wheelchair users who couldn't even reach the button. And these are churches or one chap who had severe problems in actually reaching buttons and getting to them. In fact, he was in danger whenever he did. So it became apparent to me that I was actually solving a problem for way more than just visually impaired people. If you think about the UK, there are only 300,000 people registered blind. And yet there are 30 million people who are registered with a disability. Now, not all of those are people that would need this. But if you think about Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, wheelchair users mobility scooter users, we're talking frame users, or maybe even a parent just pushing a pram. And that's a really important point here is that disabled doesn't mean handicapped, right, or whatever, whichever term somebody use, the person does not have the disability. It's a function, the process they're trying to achieve. That disables them if there isn't enough thought, in the design of the process. So if this button is really low down, and I can press it, and I'm in a wheelchair, I'm not disabled by the crossing. But if button was twice as high, the crossing has disabled me. Yeah, I have a medical condition that is causing me to need to take tablets or to be in a wheelchair. But actually, imagine a situation where we both go into work. Well, in fact, no, we're both sitting down. Would it matter if either of us was a wheelchair user? Absolutely not. Disabled? Right now, if one of us, neither of us is disabled? So would I label you as disabled if you were a wheelchair, you know, we're not being disabled by the environment. Right? So the way I saw it was all I wanted to do is enable people in which which removed their disability in that situation.

    Steve Statler 12:07

    Well, I think this is very exciting. Because, you know, one of the challenges you always have is getting the people that own the infrastructure to act. And it's not because they're bad people, or unsympathetic, it's just they're trying to make their money goes so far and but but I think what you're outlining is there's a big constituency that can benefit from better accessibility, and you are leveraging this piece of technology that every every everybody has, how challenging? Was it to get that interface with the box? I mean, you're in Edinburgh? Are all the boxes the same in Edinburgh? Or do you have to interface with a variety of?

    Gavin Neate 12:48

    They're all kind of similar? And if I mean, I'm not an engineer, I'm not a technical person by any stretch of imagination. But this is an on off switch? Yes. So if I open that up, anybody who knows anything about electronics is gonna go Yeah, that's on and that's off. Okay. You have to do is interrupt that system? To turn it on? Or turn it off? Now? Every single pedestrian crossing in the world has an off switch? Yes. So it to me, it just makes perfect sense that I would just use this as an on off switch. Yeah. Somebody once said to me, you said this is really clever, but incredibly stupid at the same time. What you've done is similar to putting a television on your bedside table, turning the television on putting on a white screen, reading a book by the light of the TV. Yeah. So you've taken the technology that can do loads, like Bluetooth Low Energy can, and you've so under utilized it, that nobody else who has any got any brain would actually have done it. So it was kind of like, okay, yeah, so are you giving me a compliment by telling

    Steve Statler 13:55

    Sounds very British, we love to undermine each other and belittle each other. We also have a sense of pride about it at the same time. So but so how, how's it going? How is it being used? And where has it been deployed?

    Gavin Neate 14:11

    Yeah, so we were offered a transfer of who were the transport Scotland have a wing for accessibility and trunk roads, and transfer that wing in Scotland and transfer have approached us having saw seen a few things that were done, and said, Any chance that you could install a couple of these crossings in logs, which is a small town on the west coast of Scotland? And we said, Well, yeah, we can do a price. And we gave them a price for two crossings in logs. And they said, All right, okay. At that price, we could afford to do the entire town. Now it's not a big town. It's 10 crossings, but we did the whole town. And so every crossing in the town is now operated by this monster, an Apple Watch, which is an Apple Watch doing something really useful rather than sports. So it's kind of a health and fitness. So we installed in the whole town of large and then live straight because this is early days, it was only last July that we managed to do that. And but since then we won the Department for Transport ch T award for Transportation Innovation. And we've also been nominated for a depart for transport, Scottish transport award for technology and innovation here accessible transport. So we're starting to get really noticed. Now we also installed at Royal Bank of Scotland headquarters here in Edinburgh, it's taken them a while to realize what they've got, because they're not set up to look at pedestrian crossings. But because it was on private land, it made a really good test site for us. So we're installed there as well. And we've got another one outside of school, where the teacher said, we don't have enough time to cross the road. And the beauty of this system is because the crossing has recognized that the button was pressed by the phone, it can actually increase the Crossing time is a massive step or turn on an audible signal being turned off, so your audible signal could be turned on. So for our crocodile, as they call them with children crossing road at the same time, instead of having to split the crocodile into they can just have the phone, press the button and the entire crocodile goes across in one sequence.

    Steve Statler 16:11

    So if there's a mayor that wants to be seen as having a smart city because everyone I think they're under pressure to do smart city, what does that mean? To me this is very smart.

    Gavin Neate 16:22

    Smart cities. Well, for a start Smart Cities is stupid, and smart towns and villages that's intelligent. Why would you try and change a city when actually what you're better off doing. And even when you do a smart, smart solution in a city, you only do a couple of streets? Well, that's what a village is a couple of streets. So do it in a village. And that's pretty much what I did. I looked at putting it into a town, which is a village size in the UK. And yeah, but it's a smart city solution. And the beauty I guess or the reason why we haven't really been noticed is because we didn't go through any of the normal routes. We didn't do smart city funding. We didn't do Innovate UK we did this all on our own money. We did this just by going and what could we do on it. So again, typically British sort of tin can on a piece of string sort of type thing and just trying to make do with what you've got. And that sometimes forces you to be very ingenious or innovative. And that's pretty much what we did. We went well, let's just do ourselves. What do we need? Let's do on a shoestring which is, which is what we did. So we've kind of snuck on snuck up on the smart city environment, because nobody really knows we exist yet they do now. But I think more and more people are becoming a going like, Oh, look at that they didn't even do it using the systems that have been put in place. You don't have to, I mean, being argumentative, or being or pointing out some serious stuff here is the smart city industry is worth billions. And there are a lot of people taking a lot of money without providing a lot of solutions. It's I'm not saying it's a racket, but because everybody's Well, meaning I'm wanting to find solutions. But ultimately, I don't think the amount of solutions that are coming out is equates to the amount of money that's gone in. And certainly as far as the ones I've seen, it's not really been as effective as it should have been.

    Steve Statler 18:13

    So how many buttons have you got out there? How many people are using the app and how many crossings are really enabled so far?

    Gavin Neate 18:21

    We've just got the one town on one village, loggers and logs. We do have sites in what Royal Bank of Scotland, but it takes time. And part of that reasoning is certification, you need to get certification now certification in the UK, as you can imagine the amount of red tape that you're gonna have to cut through to get through all of that certification. But it's challenging, and it's costly. And all that's going to happen is somebody's going to rubber stamp it because there's nothing about this, that can cause any grief because all it is is a stick, it's just pressing the button from a distance, there's nothing we don't we don't really interact with the crossing in any way whatsoever, other than just pressing the button. So the certificate certification process is one that I knew was going to take time because we're also coming from the outside where we are, what everybody loves, and what everybody hates when they when it happens to them, which is disruptive. We're a very disruptive company that has no history of innovation in the transport field who's got an innovation in the transport fields? So I would imagine people would be like, who are they coming on to do this? So we're trying to squeeze into that market and it takes time. But looking at that from a very positive way it has meant and and I will talk about it shortly is it's meant I've been able to come up with loads of other solutions using that technology and what has actually evolved from loads of other types of technologies. And we can talk about that.

    Steve Statler 19:41

    Yeah, well let's let's talk about it. Now. Tell us about welcome.

    Gavin Neate 19:45

    So yeah, welcome. Was I again, another one that came particularly from me observing the problem first. It wasn't, Oh, I've got this technology. How can I use it? Even though I knew what the technology was? It was I've seen a problem how How can I fix that problem? And it's a problem that will be everybody though. Yeah. Why didn't I think of that when I explain it. So you are a person in a wheelchair, or you're a person who is blind, or your person who's got a hearing impairment, or you're a person with a hidden disability like autism, or dyslexia, or diabetes, or epilepsy, and you go into a shop, and you meet somebody in the shop, and the person in the shop goes, because they don't know how to interact with you know what we do, let's just say we went into that shop, and we went, Oh, that was really rubbish, trust customer service. And we complain to the manager, the manager says, yes, yes, yes, certainly, I will make sure this is fixed. And they then talk to the staff member. This is very simplified, they talk to the staff member, and they say, right, you're going on a course of diversity training. And we're also going to send you a way to do some sighted guide training for blind people, you're going to have a little bit of deafblind, manual or BSL or American Sign Language, or we're going to send you a way you can do some awareness, or autism or some like that, and then the person comes back, and for the next six months, they're fantastic. And then after that, either they forget because they've never used it, or they move jobs. And all those positions, which are temporary tourism.

    Steve Statler 21:16

    So tension is huge. In the service industry, it's just a reality, and it's never going to change.

    Gavin Neate 21:21

    You train 100% of your staff, not that you ever could. And within within one year, only 90% of your staff will have been trained. Now, either you keep that churning and spending a fortune on trying to do it, or you just let it lapse. But even if you were to keep it train the people trained, which would cost a fortune, sooner or later, one staff member who hasn't had all of the training is going to make that mistake again. What happens then is the person makes a complaint. The manager says, You're a bad guy, you need to go and do some training. And the whole process starts again. And you go, why are we doing that? That's just repeating every single time. And it never improves, it just gets worse.

    Steve Statler 22:07

    So what's the solution?

    Gavin Neate 22:10

    Yeah, so what we did was utilizing the smartphone, again, as a conduit in a situation knowing that people who were disabled were using smart technology using the accessibility functions within it. And thought, well, if we had three points of contact, so that when I was going into a venue, the person in the venue knew I was coming, and then utilizing the phone to make the initial contact, but then utilizing the technology, so that the phone could stay in my pocket. I can then walk through the door of the building, and the person would go, Oh, Gavin, how are you? My name is Michael, I know that you're here to meet such and such a person. Would you like to take my arm, we've already got a chair next door for you where it's going away from the light or whatever it might be. I know you want to have fun. Or I know that you want to open a bank account right now you want to track trans travel to this place. So what we did was we put in the information in the phone to start with in welcome. And you then get the opportunity to search for a venue. So you search for a venue, then click on the venue you want to go to. And that gives you information about that venue. And the information in here could be accessibility features, opening times the Google map, it can give you venue information that's provided by the organization's like these guys disabled go and humans guide. And all that information is available for you to see if anybody's done a review on it. You can then say you're going to the venue and it says when. So let's go tomorrow. I click on tomorrow, it says what would you like, I would like to open a bank account, I would upgrade my phone, whatever it is. And then you hit Done. Hit OK. That message has now gone. And he's on the computer using a year URL web server is on the computer venue you're going to. So they look down and they can see your name, they can see your face, they can see the area that you need assistance with, they then get to see an overview of the disability that you have a general overview, no personal information, and five top tips on what they should do when they meet you. So when the person starts walking towards the venue, they hit a geofence. Right? As soon as they hit a geofence. Another message it's actually a phone call goes to the venue to say the person is now two minutes away. So have another look. Look at the overview in the top tips. So that you are prepared for when they walk through the door to give them service that is directly required by them. And then as soon as they hit the door or close to the door. They get within the range of a beacon. And the phone sees the beacon and then sends another message to say the person has arrived.

    Steve Statler 24:51

    I think this is fantastic and really broad set of applications. I mean I have a son, he's on the autism spectrum and you You really wouldn't know it until you start to kind of get into a conversation and maybe, maybe not. But I always as a parent, I'm like Gaza, I hope someone doesn't, you know, react badly, they may just think that, you know, they may not deal with him in a way that they would want to if they knew more about him. So I think this is a wonderful thing too.

    Gavin Neate 25:20

    Look at acquired brain injury. So somebody is injured themselves in a car crash, or they're a military veteran, and they give the impression they might be drunk, right? And 25 year old guy, he goes into the pub, and the guy says, You can't come in. And he's already kind of pent up in this situation. I'm not drunk. And it's a hidden disability, and we have nothing for hidden disability, apart from education. And even then, how would I know if you hadn't told me that your son had autism? Yeah. To be sort of social worker or trying to have experience of it. So to give that information if I want them to have it?

    Steve Statler 25:56

    Yeah, absolutely. I love it. What's What have you been doing it Edinburgh airport, I saw you been doing something.

    Gavin Neate 26:03

    We launched last week at Edinburgh airport, the first airport in the world, which is utilizing this system, they were really positive because airports. I mean, Edom was a small airport, by comparison, it's got, but it's still got 80,000 disabled people going through a year. And that's the ones who say that they're disabled, that doesn't say that's not the percentage that isn't so. And it's really, this is an amazing stat, it will be the same in the States. 30% of people who are disabled have an obvious disability, 70% have hidden disability. So a lot of people, we're not catering for you who are just going well, I'll just, I'll just go by and hassling anybody, but that's a whole host of different conditions. Now, if I want somebody to know that I got dyslexia, I could turn up and they could explain to me what time that train is. Or they could read to me the form instead of just passing it in the bank, passing it underneath things saying sign here, and the person goes, I don't know I'm signing. But what if they just knew, instead of being an excuse me, I've got dyslexia and five people in the queue ago and dyslexic? Why not that person knowing before I've walked through the door, that I have something that means that they need to change how they do stuff, in order to help me and that's really important. What I'm doing here is improving the life of the person who's giving the service.

    Steve Statler 27:17

    Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think people can get so much out of helping other people, but they sometimes need help in order to give that help. And and it's a win win win.

    Gavin Neate 27:29

    The equality here is just beautiful, because the balance has changed. The balance is both people benefit. But it's benefiting from the point of view of the person who is disabled dict tating. How they're going to benefit. Yes. So they're empowered to make the change. And even within the app, they can request where they want the service next. And that comes straight through to my business developer manager, who phones up the venue and says, Hi, we've had 5020 1000 People say that your business should install this system.

    Steve Statler 28:03

    Yeah. Do it. So one brief anecdote. Back in my Qualcomm days, we did this beacon enabled customer experience at a coffee bar, it was the local coffee bar. And basically, you'd have the app and there'll be a beacon you got close to the barista and basically the barista could greet you by name. And they could, you didn't have to it was no tap payment. So basically, your face the fact that there was a beacon connection, I used to get in and out quickly. But the barista had to have an extra tablet and there was this extra system and we were really worried that they were just gonna get so cheesed off with it. But that wasn't the situation at all. They loved it. They loved it because suddenly pick because they were getting smiles from people who are their customers. And the the it was it was a virtuous circle. People love the system the baristas love giving the better service. And so I think I can see the same dynamic with with welcome. So how much does it cost? Because you've sold me if I had a venue, then I'd be using it.

    Gavin Neate 29:07

    But yeah, so Well, I mean, we'll have a link to the the airport video, but the Minister for Social Welfare, the Scottish Minister for Social Welfare said to us, I want to come and promote this, I want to come and promote what you guys are doing. And we're a private in private business. I mean, she didn't have to do that at all, but she promoted it. And she said, every business needs to have this. And the beauty of this system, because it's a SaaS model is that every business can have it. Because we're charging a really small we do a small setup fee, which is training of the staff, and installation of the beacon, which is as you know, incredibly simple. And also when we commit to market research and market that we do them so we help them market the fact that they've installed it and then we also do account management. So we're there on the other end of the phone to help them through the year if they have us. tuition which they didn't cope with or cater for. So it's a SaaS model, they pay an upfront fee. Depending on the site, there's not really size dependent, but if there are airport, then it's going to be a bit more than if it was a coffee shop. So we install it. And then they have an entire year of having the service and the marketing and all support and the staff training for a SaaS model the cost, and it could be from 100 bucks, 200 bucks a month, which is small potatoes for these things.

    Steve Statler 30:28

    Yeah. Excellent. Well, I wish you well, I think those are two wonderful projects. And so if people want to find you, how can they find you.

    Gavin Neate 30:39

    So neat, Neatebox.com. And it's any at E. So there's an era in the middle box.com. And they could write to us at Hello at Neatebox. And I'm very happy to hear from people and talk, we know that the North American market, the Australian market, any English speaking market will be our first port of call. And it's actually quite easy for us to transfer it. It's more to do with scale, the company is small at this point, but with investment, and we're going through an investment round that we could quite easily get to America. And the beauty of what we've got is the fact that when you go into the overview, you've then got the next you've got top tips, overview and then resource and the resource is a direct link to the charity. And we've got great relationship with all the charities that have given us the overviews and the top tips. So the staff member clicks on that. And they get all that information. So that's tied into the whole process as well. But if people want to contact us, they just do hello at Neatebox, or neatbox.com for all the information. If you go on to Google, or to YouTube, there are so many videos of me, it's tiring for my team to see me constantly on YouTube. But there's so much out there. And I would love to hear from people. But I don't want to just hear from business owners. I want to hear from users. Because this is a user revolution. If we had 50,000 people in the state saying I think that this needs to be in Walmart, Walmart's gonna say this needs to be in Walmart. And I will go there in a moment, and I will get it in Walmart. And those guys will get better service and they'll have more people going through the door and people will be happier to go in and use it. So from I mean, we're in Scotland, Scottish Government took us last month so we're now installed with the Scottish Government. But we're with Hilton Doubletree, we're Doubletree Hilton, where with little coffee shops we're with we've just won an award for the Rail Safety Board to put it into trains with Virgin East Coast trains. were hammered. We've got so many we've got Andrews links, Golf Club, which anybody who's in America, they know exactly what that is. They've just been stalling. But we're also in Falkirk wheel and RNIB Guide Dogs for the Blind, Deaf, Deaf Blind, UK, these charities of all got it in their head offices as well. So we're rocking and rolling over here. And I want to come to I'd love to come to states and do stuff over there. And even just to come and talk it would be a pleasure.

    Steve Statler 33:00

    Yeah, I'm going to try and find a really good excuse for you to come to San Diego. That would be great.

    Gavin Neate 33:06

    If it's not happening in San Diego, it's not happening.

    Steve Statler 33:10

    Excellent. Well, Gavin meet of Neatebox. I'm so pleased after years of watching what you do and admiring it, we got a chance to talk. Thanks for coming on the show.

    Gavin Neate 33:18

    It's a real pleasure. It's a real pleasure.

    Steve Statler 33:27

    So what three songs do you take on a trip to Mars?

    Gavin Neate 33:32

    Steve, there's no way on God's earth that I would be Gavin neat. If I'm in charge any box if I didn't actually twist meat box into the songs that I've picked in some way. And the truth is, and the God's honest truth is that my life is so dedicated to what I do that it's impossible for it not to be all pervading. So it's very, it was very easy to find songs that have meant something to me while I've been on this journey. And there's three that I definitely have. And then they will they all have a really good connection to what I'm doing why I do it. And the first one was probably my first experience of YouTube, which is interesting, because it's a song but it's a YouTube video that went with a song. And it was an absolute Corker. It was done. It was called prime by Gary Sherman. And you might not know the name of the song or the name of the artist, but you probably in fact, I'm fairly certain you'll have heard of where the Hell is Matt? Yeah. Matt Harding is as Scott company himself now but he did traveling around the world at one point, he did this once where he's doing this.

    Steve Statler 34:37

    It's amazing.

    Gavin Neate 34:39

    Stunning and I remember watching that and at the time, it just really made my heart beat faster because although it was traveling, he didn't have his own back to start with but it him on his own. And then he's surrounded by people. They will just join in. And eventually you don't see him at all. And the fact is that because you're traveling around the world and you're seeing all these people You realize, and they're all doing a stupid dance, you realize that we're all people on the same planet doesn't matter what city you're in or anything, and the music is so beautiful. And I love the way it builds. And I love the way it means something. And I think when music means something to you, and when I can connect it to technology, and then I was just like over the moon when I thought about I thought, well, it's got to be that one because it means a lot to is my journey of understanding technology. So Matt Harding, or other Gary Simon with prime is definitely one that I had in. The second one is actually just as much for the country I live in the city I live in as it is for the song although the song is absolutely fantastic. Many of the people that you have watching might might have heard of a chap called Danny MacAskill. And if you haven't heard his name, you might have seen his videos. Danny's a mountain mountain biker, but trick, a mountain biker. And he did a piece by in science inspired cycles. That was filmed in Edinburgh using street signs and fences and trees and street infrastructure. And the song that went behind it was called the funeral by Band of Horses. And it is so beautiful. And I reckon it's another YouTube video. But it's such a beautiful video that you connect to what you're seeing, I never really connected lyrics to music, but for whatever reason I can connect what I see to music. And if it comes up a feeling and emotion in me while I'm watching it, then it's just absolutely tremendous. And what Danny has done for Scotland and his stuff on Scotland is absolutely stunning. I mean, his stunt riding is remarkable. And he's getting on a bit now, but he still does it. And he's a remarkable guy. I've met him a couple of times. And he just worked. Yeah, so I'd signature chat for five minutes. You just the top guy. So the the music funeral by the Band of Horses is just gorgeous. And I recommend people to listen to that. And then the last one is very personal because it's my sister and my sister. She did six albums. In the time that she was a musician. She's now she's not a farmer. But at the time, she was a musician. She's a remarkable lady. And she paid for them all herself. She just went, I know what I'm doing. And I'm gonna go and do that. Both my brother and sister are both remarkable people. And I don't know if I'm cut from the same cloth, but I certainly have that. I'm just going to do that. And it's a song called rocketship. And I kind of connected that I obviously is my sister but I connected it to the fact that I am going to Mars. And it's what she thinks with her. She goes right well, what would you take to Mars and a lot of people might say technology and all these sorts of things. She's like, well, I'm after toothbrush, toothpaste, paper and pen, because she's a writer, and she wants to write so she gets to Mars and she's writing songs.

    Steve Statler 37:39

    Beautiful. I applaud you those wonderful choices. We should we should give you another five and make a whole show out of it. But the threes threes. Terrific. That's great.