Mister Beacon Episode #32

Beacons & Programmatic Advertising Networks - Airmarket

March 26, 2017

Andrew Davis, COO of Airmarket, describes the work his company is doing to integrate Bluetooth beacons with the programmatic advertising networks that major advertising agencies use on behalf of brands. He explains the jargon and we discuss the players in this space, as well as the future of the Beacosystem. [Recorded: March 8. 2017]


  • Andrew Davis 00:00

    Add a beacon inside a mall is very valuable. Because the user could be on level one, level two, level three of the mall. And a beacon helps determine that. The way that we look at it is like, remember back in the early 2000s, everyone operated their own website. And then Google just came along and said, well, we'll serve the ads and we'll just cut you in. That's, that's fine like we're beacons are today, you got a lot of companies managing their own little infrastructure pieces. But advertisers just want to access the whole thing in a really easy fashion. So that's kind of the layer where our market fits in. One of the Reasons to be Cheerful are all the advertisers and agencies that we meet, when we go in and demo when we show them, you know, a sponsored notification coming from a third party app, they get super excited. So for us, that's, that's great, because ultimately, they're the ones that are paying for JCDecaux, who were the outdoor furniture company, they're using beacons as a way for them to be able to track and analyze people that service their out of home units. So instead of manually logging that down on a piece of paper, I was you know, on the corner of 34th and third and I had to you know, fix the the outdoor panel is that is being automated via a beacon in the panel. And and that that's loaded on the production guys device.

    Narration 01:33

    You're listening to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Beacosystem with Steve Statler. Welcome to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Beacosystem. This week, we are talking to Andrew Davis, who is the co founder and CFO of Airmarket. He's based in New York. So Andrew, welcome to the show.

    Andrew Davis 01:55

    Thanks for having me, Steven. Pleasure.

    Narration 01:57

    Yeah, so we're going to be talking about beacon networks. And if we think about where the beacon ecosystem, proximity location marketing ecosystem is, scale is a critical success factor. And I believe that networks are a key to achieving that scale. And you've started a company that helps to make that possible. And so we'll be talking about what you guys do your view of the marketplace. And you know, when you first started in this business, you were actually you set up a different company, tap it, is that right? That's right. That's right. How did tap it become a market?

    Andrew Davis 02:38

    Yeah, so that's, that's a really good question. So tap, it was originally all about connecting physical objects to the internet. And so that was built at the beginning of 2011. And the primary technology that we were using there to connect physical objects to the internet was using near field communications. And the beauty of that technology was users weren't required to download an app. So they could just tap on various objects. And these brand owners or clients could deliver various information and content over the internet. The the challenge with new field communications, even until today is that it's not compatible with iPhone. So iPhone only uses NFC for Apple Pay. And then any other type of interactivity with the NFC controller is locked. And so for us to scale the company to the vision that we originally founded the company on was very difficult, because if you can't cater to an iPhone audience, you pretty much you know, cutting off a huge chunk of the brand's audience, especially in the US, Canada, Australia and the UK.

    Narration 03:53

    I actually heard obviously, you're from Australia, I think most frequent. Tell that from your, your accent. And I heard that there was some Australian banks, they're actually suing Apple to try and open up the NFC access for their for their payment. So I hope they get somewhere with that.

    Andrew Davis 04:10

    But I'm, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. But we went back to the drawing board, we obviously got traction with with the product, but we could never scale with clients to the level that we were in envision. So we went back to the drawing board, and took all those learnings that we that we gathered across the journey with TAPit. And said, Well, what technologies can we use in a similar way, but it's compatible with all devices. And that's sort of how the genesis of their market was born. And that was back in 2015 2015.

    Narration 04:47

    So you've been at this for a couple of years. How big is the company and where are your people?

    Andrew Davis 04:54

    Yeah, so we've got six staff. Myself in the US, we've got a Late sales guy in London in the UK. And then tech and our CEO are based back in Sydney. So that's where the business is headquartered.

    Narration 05:11

    And tell us tell us about the platform and what the service you offer. It's basically like a three sided network isn't right.

    Andrew Davis 05:17

    Yeah. So the one thing that we noticed, and it's still evident today with beacons to your point is it's very fragmented. So there's lots of companies that are playing on both sides of the fence in terms of, there's lots of companies providing beacons and rolling them out for various customers. But that's fragmented from an advertiser perspective. So if an advertiser wants to access some beacons, they'd have to approach each of these individual companies that are rolling out beacons. So what air market is trying to do is aggregate all those beacons on one side. So the beacon owner can make revenue from that infrastructure that's already deployed out in the field. And the advertised benefit there is is that they don't need to invest in their in any type of hardware each time they want to do a campaign. And so think of that, like a an Uber style approach where rather than just operating one taxi by yourself, you're able to operate many cars at once. And then on the other side is because beacons require an app on someone's phone, is we work with third party apps to be able to deliver notification from those beacons. And so a core part of our remit is to partner with large apps, which allows an advertiser to deliver many notifications to their consumers, as they're coming into proximity of these various beacon networks across the world.

    Steve Statler 06:50

    So you've got advertisers that are paying to get access hooks into existing apps that have distribution, so they don't have to worry about creating an app and all the risk and cost that goes with that. So they have a known quantity in terms of the app coverage and install base. And you're linking those apps to a network of beacons. And presumably, the advertiser pays for this and who gets the money? Do you share it with people with beacons and the app bonus is that.

    Andrew Davis 07:20

    Yeah, we share it on all sides. So in terms of that value chain, each part of the puzzle is adding value, the beacon is adding value, because you're able to determine exactly where someone is to a to a very close range. And then we're obviously sharing revenue with the app because they're playing an important role in being able to access the consumer on their device.

    Steve Statler 07:43

    And how far have you got in terms of building building this up? It's notoriously difficult to start with these things.

    Andrew Davis 07:51

    Yeah, so that's a really good point. Because it's so early, these things do take time. So we've just recently signed our first app partnership with a company called Air Porsche. And the beauty of air Porsche is rather than us approaching individual apps, one by one, they have 1000s of apps within their network. And so we provide our SDK to air push, who then deploy it into those 1000s of apps. So it kind of gives us scale, by doing one deal, rather than doing 1000 individual deals. And then we're in the process of obviously, partnering with more apps, as well as companies that have beacons deployed in the field.

    Steve Statler 08:40

    So what kind of apps does push having learned?

    Andrew Davis 08:43

    Very long tail app, Steven, so think gaming apps, apps, like flashlight, and etc. So, you know, when I'm talking Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and those style of apps, it's apps that have decent, decent user base when added together the core need or want from the apps themselves is they really need to make money from their apps. And the beauty with their market and the notifications is the consumer doesn't have to be inside the app for the notification to be delivered. So unlike an ad banner where users need to be inside the app for the app to make money, this is call it an incremental revenue stream for those apps.

    Steve Statler 09:34

    Okay, so I might be playing solitaire, or I might have played solitaire at one point and doesn't really matter. I get these notifications that pop down from the top of my screen what what kind of message would be in the notification? What's the user experience? Like?

    Andrew Davis 09:50

    Yeah, so that's something that we're currently educating advertisers on. So it can't be It can't be general awareness type messages because that fits The old sort of above the line media approach, but the push notifications, because one, it's a mobile device, it's very personable. And because we know the location of a consumer, it has to add value to the context of the consumer. So it could be an offer, or it could be entry into a competition. It could be exclusive content from, say, a Netflix or an Amazon. But it has to add value to the consumer. It can't be something like, Hey, I've just launched my new TV ad. Because then all people in the value chain lose, especially the advertiser.

    Steve Statler 10:39

    Yeah, that makes sense. So the rule is as to add value can't just be welcome to the store, notice, or why don't you go here? How are you getting to the advertisers? You're based in New York? That seems like a pretty good start?

    Andrew Davis 10:55

    Yeah, that's so that was one of the reasons why we set up in New York, obviously, it's the mecca of advertising globally, and where all the global decisions are made, all the big agencies are here. So our primary path to market with advertisers is working with the media agencies. And a core feature of our platform is making the process of purchasing notifications programmatic, as you know, most digital and mobile media is going to that programmatic automated style of buying and analyzing. And so a key feature that we're trying to incorporate with our market is being able to integrate with those programmatic platforms. So they can buy some notifications in exactly the same way that they buy some video ads, some mobile banners. And so it becomes part of their their mobile tactics when they're doing these various advertising campaigns.

    Steve Statler 11:52

    And are there specific programmatic advertising platforms that you are targeting that you would like to work with?

    Andrew Davis 11:59

    Yeah, so that in terms of the market, there's pretty much there's five core trading desks, if you will, that are controlled by the five large agency groups. So cadre n is a trading desk that is owned and operated by Interpublic Group xaxis for WPP acumen for OMD, or Omnicom. And then, for publicists, you have the name escapes me, but it's pretty much five trading desk control the bulk of programmatic advertising. And so we're, we're primarily focused on working with those guys to be able to deliver these these new types of mobile ads programmatically.

    Steve Statler 12:47

    How close Have you got to to getting one of those links built?

    Andrew Davis 12:53

    Well, the unfortunately, the process with programmatic is you don't just have to integrate with the trading desk. There's a range of other stakeholders that need to be integrated with one being an ad server to serve the ad, so that could be a double click, it could be a seismic. And then the other one is the, the the SSP. So a Rubicon or an app Nexus or something like that. So we're currently working with those guys to try and get it to a phase where it is pure programmatic. But there's still a way to go to make that happen.

    Steve Statler 13:32

    What does the SSP do?

    Andrew Davis 13:35

    The SSP allows us to upload our inventory to which then plugs into various trading desks. So the five that I just mentioned, as well as a range of other sources that might be interested in purchasing advertising.

    Steve Statler 13:50

    Okay, I'm just decoding the acronym. So says that's sales. So platforms that sell side platform.

    Andrew Davis 13:56

    Right, exactly. And then the trading desk as a demand side platform.

    Steve Statler 14:01

    Okay. All right. And what about the data management platform? Isn't that another component?

    Andrew Davis 14:10

    We had, the agencies might have their own DMP. But essentially, that's what the the ad servers is trying to manage in that relationship is because the ad is being served by the agency or the trading desk preferred ad server, all the analytics and data is being housed in that repository. And then whatever served is obviously being analyzed and collected by our market as well.

    Steve Statler 14:36

    And so what are the bits that you've built so far? Because presumably, you need kind of a directory of beacons, you need some API's into apps, you you need to collect the metadata that describes the significance of the beacons. How far have you got with that?

    Andrew Davis 14:56

    Yeah, so at the moment and market is for the advertisers. It's an manage service. So some programmatic today, in terms of what we've built is the platform that can onboard third party beacons. And then we're able to label them in the database to understand a where they where they are, what's near those beacons, and other various data that's, that could be important for an advertiser to to be able to target. And then on the outside, we've built an SDK. So unfortunately, if you don't have an SDK, the system can't work. It would be great, too, if it was just API's, because it'd be a lot easier to onboard apps and networks. But at this stage, it's an SDK that the app developer has to embed inside their app. Alright.

    Narration 15:52

    So do you have to So what kind of interface do you have with the beacons? How do How does that work?

    Andrew Davis 16:02

    Yeah. So with with onboarding beacons, we have to onboard the beacons directly with the beacon owner. So we need those beacon IDs, and then we label the various beacons in our system. And so it's as easy as, as long as you give us access to those beacon IDs, they can then be accessed by our third party apps.

    Steve Statler 16:26

    And what kind of beacons do you work with.

    Andrew Davis 16:30

    So we're working with all form factors that are probably the most popular is the the accent beacons. So I'm not sure if you're familiar with those, but they're compliant in all modes from iBeacon and Eddystone. To obviously, just standard beacon mode for Android devices. But we're concentrating on with beacons. It's great. But it's also looking at beacons where it's high density, it's multi level, because that's where the real value of beacons coming into play. So things like a beacon insight and more is very valuable. Because they use it could be on level one, level two, level three ever more. And a beacon helps determine that. But with the app market platform, and the way that the SDK works as well, we can use GPS for locations in areas where there might not be beacons deployed, or we we might not have a footprint in that physical location with a beacon. So it's using two modes of analysis to determine where someone is.

    Steve Statler 17:40

    And you talked about the different kinds of standards for beacons. But so you're you you can use beacons during the clear, obviously, if it's an iBeacon, or Eddystone, UID beacon, or just proprietary static beacon, you can use that. But can you use like the ephemeral IDs Eddystone e ID and I don't know if accent has a proprietary conditional access mode for their beacons, do you? Do you link into those?

    Andrew Davis 18:12

    Yeah, so with the ephemeral, we've done some testing with with Google on their Eddystone stuff. For what we're trying to do with with advertising, we found Eddystone to be really clunky. And that just might be because it's it's early stage for Chrome and Google. But in terms of having to deliver advertising campaigns for brands, using ephemeral from Google, is actually really difficult. So what we're focusing on with the advertising campaigns is purely iBeacon. And then standard beacon mode for Android devices, because because our experience with Eddystone, is it's just too unpredictable. And Google's keeping a lot of that data on their site, as opposed to being able to funnel it through to a third party platform like our market.

    Steve Statler 19:06

    Oh, interesting. So you're finding just basic reliability issues and not seeing the beacons is when you is that part of it.

    Andrew Davis 19:16

    It's all of the above Steven, it's not saying the beacons, the notification comes once but then the next time you come into that, to that range, or that location or proximity of the beacon, it's not delivered again. Sometimes you have to be in that location for a set period of time for it to be delivered, even though there was no parameters set within the system for that to occur. So so for us that the division of Eddystone was great when it started. And it was kind of like, communism looks great on paper, but in practice, it doesn't really work out. And that's kind of the feeling that I have towards Eddystone at the moment is You know, it'd be great if it played out like it, it says on the website and in the documentation, but unfortunately, in practice, it's still got holes like Swiss cheese.

    Steve Statler 20:13

    Well, and to what degree is there? In reality, is there the concern about Google being in the chain in terms of having to register your beacons with the proximity API? I mean, they, they will manage the data for you. But I guess, you know, as long as you put the basics in there, you don't have to give them all the really valuable metadata Do you have a way of dealing with that?

    Andrew Davis 20:44

    Our experience was that they still want to control most of the data and what's collected through their system. There are API's for you to extract certain information, but it's nowhere near as robust as having your own system that's pulling that from the device via an app. The other the other issue that we found just from a user experience is that the user has to go into Chrome and activate Physical Web.

    Steve Statler 21:12

    Right, that's different, though, isn't it? There's fit that's Eddystone URL, and that's using Chrome to browse beacons as opposed to having, you know, essentially an iBeacon. You know, I think about iBeacon. And you basically have UU IDs and major minor device numbers, and then all the beacon vendors, you know, a lot of them who have been in this space have like proprietary conditional access, so in market have their conditional access standard, and even bolttech, to an estimate now have their own proprietary thing. So it's all kind of different ways of doing the same thing. But it's nothing to do with your URL. So I mean, I, so putting the Physical Web is a wonderful thing, but probably not ideally suited to what we're talking about here. So let's just go back to those proprietary approaches. Have you had any experience with working with like, I guess you in a way might be competing with gimble? A little bit. But have you worked with any of those conditional access mechanisms that the beacon vendors offer? And have you had any better luck in terms of getting reliable results from them?

    Andrew Davis 22:23

    Yeah, so we, in terms of those, like security keys, where you need to match something to be able to access the beacons like we've spoken to gimbal and the likes of those guys, but we haven't had access to those because, as I said, before, that the market early, it's fragmented, and people are sort of figuring out who's who and who's going to win and so forth. But yeah, like, as long as you have access to some type of key on a gimbal, or in market side, you can access those beacons. And it makes sense for them that they're protecting it in that way, because that gives them a, you know, IP creation and things like that.

    Steve Statler 23:07

    I guess, although really, I don't think this markets about market share at the moment, it's about getting to critical mass. And I think that the way I look at it is it's a bit like the early days of the mobile phone networks. And I think pretty quickly, even if you're T Mobile or AT and T you realize you go into a rural area, you need a roaming agreement, you need to work with companies that you might be competing with for customer acquisition. And actually those companies make loads of money on roaming agreements, you know, both the big companies and the small companies. So my hope is that we can all agree to work together because the biggest challenge is just getting coverage. Not Yeah, fighting perspective.

    Andrew Davis 23:54

    Like the advertisers, they're like, this is too hard. So we're not going to bother. Yeah. The way that we look at it is like, remember, back in the early 2000s, everyone operated their own website. And then Google just came along and said, well, we'll serve the ads and we'll just cut you in. That's, that's fine. A lot. We're bacons out today, you got a lot of companies managing their own little infrastructure pieces. But advertisers just want to access the whole thing in a really easy fashion. So that's kind of the layer where our market fits in.

    Steve Statler 24:27

    So give me some grounds for optimism, because because I hear a lot of people being pessimistic about this market. And it is really challenging. I feel like there's definitely I mean, there's, there's companies that have Shopkick is sort of in this market, they have their own app, so they haven't really yet succeeded in opening it up. But they've certainly that they've, they generate a lot of revenue, and they've got pretty big staff and they got acquired for princely sum. So that's kind of one sign that it can be done and I see in market have What else 80 people and they haven't raised a huge amount of capital. So they must be. And they've had a real focus on certain segments like, retail, and now they're looking at bars and so forth. What are you seeing that's Reasons to be cheerful part, one.

    Andrew Davis 25:18

    The reasons to be Cheerful are all the advertisers and agencies that we meet, when we go in and demo when we show them, you know, a sponsored notification coming from a third party app, they get super excited. So for us, that's, that's great, because ultimately, they're the ones that are paying for it. And again, to deem whether it's successful or not. So in terms of step one, that's really exciting. The challenge, though, with with advertisers is because this is quite new, it's it's a big step change for how they think about mobile advertising. So they're still used the desktop error methods of putting banners inside web pages and apps. And so that education process of hey, that's still fantastic. And you can still do that. But now you can do these things called push notifications, where the consumer can be exposed to a brand's communications without having to be in an app. And in a particular moment, like retail, or on board on the bus, and I want to be entertained. So you could get something from say, Netflix or Amazon for episodic content. And so that takes time. It's exciting, but going from not not much revenue to how do we scale that up to to get where it's really exciting from a revenue or business perspective, it just takes time. But the initial feedback from from the agencies has been super positive. And then trying to overlay that with a programmatic story of, you can do it in exactly the same way that you can do mobile banners or video ads, adds another layer of excitement, because that's where all their dollars are heading, in terms of in terms of buying.

    Steve Statler 27:11

    And what so what is holding it back? What are the if you had a magic wand, and you could overcome one or two problems, what would be the one or two problems that you would take off the table that you think would energize the market?

    Andrew Davis 27:24

    Well, I think to your point before is the the fragmentation question is you've got a lot of companies in the field right now that are sort of holding their cards close to their chests. And for good reason. But but the angle that we're coming from is a rising tide raises all boats. And so at the end of the day, all we're concerned about is scale. And so our pitch to the likes of enmarket gimble. And those companies are, we don't see them as competitors, we see them as partners. Because at the end of the day, if we can take an advertiser from x scale to, you know, a multiple of five, that benefits everyone in the ecosystem, and it just means that the more brands that are using that, the more PII you can do, and then the more comfortable other brands feel in making that step and investment into using beacons as a as a method of reaching consumers on their devices.

    Steve Statler 28:24

    Yeah. So the thing I'm taking from that the thing that is holding the advertisers back the most is just critical mass of coverage of all the the key markets and the key segments that they want to address. Is that fair?

    Andrew Davis 28:40

    So yeah, and it's more from the the key concern for the advertiser is the app network, as opposed to the beacon network.

    Steve Statler 28:49

    Because you can always do some kind of GPS type thing to get.

    Andrew Davis 28:54

    But at the end of the day to reach a consumer, the app is the Trojan horse to being able to do that. So without the app component, you can spend all the money you want on rolling out beacons. But if you've got an app with a tiny user base, it's a complete waste of money. And so that's, that's probably the the priority for us as a company, as well, as is onboarding lots of apps.

    Steve Statler 29:18

    That make sense. So and I think different companies will bring, bring different things to market, you may have one of the players that just has a great beacon network, but could do with more apps and exactly others that have really great integration with these trading desks and, and other components in that ecosystem you describe, so I'd love to get your view of some of the other players in the market from kind of perspective of coopetition you I'm sure you've looked at all of them, you know, what do you think of Exxon for instance?

    Andrew Davis 29:54

    Yeah, so Exxon is, is interesting. So they're called me business model is banners inside mobile web pages and apps. And so we've quasi compete with them. But we, you know, they're not doing what what we're doing. They could they have lots of apps that they represent, I'm not sure how many of them have their SDK, for instance, but they could easily move into this space, right. So they're, they're a competitor as well as a threat. But the people that we see within the ecosystem today, we see as friendlies, not enemies. And so when I say that I say, I'm talking about swirl, I'm talking about gimbal, I'm talking about air market, I'm talking about mobility. And the likes, and those companies have done very well in terms of getting a physical footprint of beacons out there. And they've also done quite well on acquiring various apps to support those individual networks. And so we see them as partners to grow the ecosystem together in exchange for revenue share on both the beacon side as well as the app side.

    Steve Statler 31:11

    Yeah. And what about Unicast?

    Andrew Davis 31:15

    Unicast is interesting. So I would see them more as competing directly with an axon. I, you know, they're obviously aggregating beacon date data to then be able to retarget consumers when they come into various locations. I think the the challenge for unicast, and I've said this to Thomas is you need apps, because the the beacon companies that you're integrating with, don't have many apps. And so therefore, the data that you generate is not going to be as significant to us as like other advertising DMPS offer for clients right there.

    Steve Statler 32:02

    So we're good reason to work together. All right. Well, I'd love to get your predictions for you know, what's coming down the pike. What's the future, but anything else that we should talk about with regards to your business? Would you think we've captured the essence?

    Andrew Davis 32:18

    I think I think we've captured the essence, you know, it's a middle. It's a middle layer offering that combines beacons and apps for advertisers to use at scale.

    Steve Statler 32:28

    Yeah. And so basically, you want to talk to anyone that's got beacons, anyone that's got apps, and you're going to help bring them together with advertisers?

    Andrew Davis 32:37

    That's right. That's exactly right.

    Steve Statler 32:40

    So okay, we've got our crystal ball out what's not necessarily directly related to your part of the beacon ecosystem, but what are your predictions for the future?

    Andrew Davis 32:53

    In regards to beacons themselves?

    Narration 32:55

    Yeah, I'd be interested in the market.

    Andrew Davis 32:57

    Yeah, well, like you've obviously seen the various studies that are you know, from, from ABI and such that are saying, you know, we're going to 400 million by 2020, in terms of beacons deployed out in the field, which is obviously great for for companies that are operating in that space, I think that the industry's gonna hang on consumer experience, or user experience, because it doesn't necessarily have to be a b2c offering. It could be b2b. But it all stems from, and we learned this with tappet, as well as you have to create amazing magical experiences with the end user. Okay, so if you don't do that, it's all a waste of time. And people will turn off Bluetooth and and uninstall the app and not be bothered. And so I think it's less of a technology play and more understanding of what's going to add value to the PayPal at on the end of these things, which is the mobile devices.

    Steve Statler 33:59

    So where's the where's the big potential? Do you think and who's doing which of the verticals that are doing a good job? So I'm gonna be moderating a panel on connected spaces that the Bluetooth forum, World Forum that's coming up, beginning of April, and we've got basically a museum, San Diego Museum of Art. We've got the we've got a sports stadium stadium that's going to be there. And we've also got someone from AT and T talking about the national emergency address database, the 911 database, because my, my personal prediction is that's going to really energize the market because people, venue owners will deploy beacons to bring down their insurance rates to manage liability because if you have beacons, someone dials 911 emergency services, we'll get there faster. So if I'm at a stadium or an airport or any and anything like that, then I don't want to have on my conscience the fact that someone had a stroke, and it took an extra five minutes for the emergency services to find them. And I, in my mind the same way as the military applications were the reasons for getting GPS satellites up there. This will be the driver for pervasive beacon deployment. And then we'll figure out lots of ways of doing it. So anyway, that's my kind of plug for what they're doing. And they're a client of mine. So I'm biased.

    Andrew Davis 35:31

    But it's, I definitely agree with you with the b2b solutions. Yeah. So a couple of companies that we know that are doing some really cool, exciting, valuable deployments are JCDecaux, who were the outdoor furniture company, they they're using beacons as a way for them to be able to track and analyze people that service, they're out of home units. So instead of manually logging that down on a piece of paper, I was, you know, on the corner of 34th. And third, and I had to, you know, fix the the outdoor panel is that is being automated via a beacon in the panel, and an app that's loaded on the the production guys device. And so JCDecaux can automatically determine that that production representative was at that particular panel at that particular time.

    Steve Statler 36:25

    Fascinating. That's, that's great. So I thought you were going to talk about them using it for targeting of out of home advertising.

    Andrew Davis 36:35

    It's purely so that deployment is purely operational. Yeah. And then I believe that Coker doing something similar with bending. Yeah, so each time a vending representative goes out, and obviously stacks the cokes and fixes the machine. Yeah, they've got an app that's loaded on to their work device. Yeah. And that that visit is being recorded automatically, as opposed to manually.

    Steve Statler 37:02

    All right. Very cool. Well, that's, yeah, that's, that's fantastic. And obviously, companies that are very focused on advertising, but this is about operational applications. And I agree, I think we're gonna see it. And you know, the volumes in terms of people that sell beacons, asset management, yes, tracking all that stuff is gonna help to invigorate things. I'm gonna go back to my panel since the 29th of March in the Santa Clara is the convention center there, and we're actually going to have Kyle Eggman, who's the Senior Director from the Sacramento Kings. So that is the sports nice. I was having a senior moment there. And I don't want to waste an opportunity to plug that to that panel. So should be an interesting discussion. Well, that's good. I like your Reasons to be Cheerful. I think I think whilst we're kind of doing whilst you're doing the hard work and getting programmatic advertising, there's lots of reasons for beacons to get deployed. And that will just make your life easier. And hopefully, that we can get a bit of coopetition going with all the players in this space, so that, you know, the market gets bigger, faster.

    Andrew Davis 38:16

    That's right. For us. It's it's education, combined with case studies and PR, and from our standpoint, that'll, that'll grow the market exponentially over time.

    Steve Statler 38:27

    Cool. Okay, I do. Great to talk to you. Good luck in your ventures. I think you've obviously got some amazing experience and great start in terms of app base. So congratulations, and thanks again.

    Andrew Davis 38:43

    Thank you very much, Steve. And thanks for having me pleasure.

    Narration 38:57

    So what three tracks would you take tomorrow?

    Andrew Davis 39:00

    So three songs would be Rocket Man by Elton John. As well, a rocket to Mars. second song would be blue dinner by Strauss, because it has a very 2001 feel to it.

    Steve Statler 39:16

    A film that?

    Andrew Davis 39:19

    I love 2001 Space Odyssey the original sci fi.

    Steve Statler 39:22

    Yeah. And incredible the quality of the graphics and everything for that era. I mean, it is yeah, timeless.

    Andrew Davis 39:31

    A recent recently saw it on the big screen actually. Yeah, New York. Yeah, there's a couple of cinemas that that screen old films and that one was on a couple of weeks ago.

    Narration 39:42

    That is up there in my Top 10 Top five films probably actually what got me interested in computers with how and all that sort of stuff.

    Andrew Davis 39:50

    Yeah. You know the story about how right

    Steve Statler 39:55

    I'm not sure what to do. What's the story?

    Andrew Davis 39:57

    It's one letter After each of the letters IBM, IBM Yeah, yes.

    Steve Statler 40:04

    Yeah. Very good. And you know if Siri was like 1/10 as good as how then the market.

    Andrew Davis 40:11

    Exactly, exactly. And then the third song would be things went a little bit pear shaped. We've got Requiem Mass by Mozart no one's ever gone to Mars. Yeah, right.

    Steve Statler 40:28

    No, well, no, not in real life. Although that movie was pretty good.

    Andrew Davis 40:33

    Yes. Oh yeah, the Matt Damon film.