Best-By Dates and Beyond: How Tech is Fixing Food Labels

Transcript

• Steve Statler 0:00

  Welcome to the Mr. Beacon podcast. We have got a great episode for you this week. I'm speaking to the CEO of keep it, who's also one of the drivers behind a new group called the smart food tech coalition, and it's all about stuff that impacts us, all the use by dates, best by dates that are governing whether food tastes good, whether it's safe, and the waste that affects our pocketbook. So if you're one of those people that eats food, then this episode is definitely for you, a great way to start 2025 I'm excited to start to curate another set of episodes to guide people like me who are trying to figure out this ambient Internet of Things ecosystem, which is such a fascinating cocktail of technology, business, human factors, regulation, systems,

  it's there's so much that we all need to learn in order to move things forward, make the world smarter, more efficient, more sustainable, have better experiences for people. And so this, this show is, is all about that, and all it's to arm the folks that are trying to drive change, create new offerings, architect new solutions. So I think you're going to see a lot of stuff happening in 2025 both with williot. And you know, my own personal plans for the year, I'm super excited. And you know, this is an important part of what I do. The podcast been going for, gosh, best part of 10 years before I joined willyot. And if you're listening or watching, then I want to thank you. We have quite a broad set of people that you use this podcast. I say that advisedly, friend of mine, Elizabeth Kerr uses the podcast because she finds it very boring and it helps her get to sleep. So Elizabeth, if you're listening or watching to this, I'm Hope I'm my soporific voice is lulling you into into slumber, as designed everyone else. I hope you find this interesting, amusing, helps you keep up to date and gives you an edge. So that's it. Let's, let's hear what Kristen has to say in this interview. Do stay to the end. Kristen's got this fascinating background with Coca Cola and Nestle and espresso, and we get into that as well as his music taste. But the most of this session is about this new coalition which is going to change food forever. Enjoy it. The Mr. Beacon ambient IoT podcast is sponsored by willing art bringing intelligence to every single thing. So Kristen, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. First one of the new year. We had a run at this at the end of last year, and we wanted to get the technical quality right. So appreciate your coming back to talk about two things. Let's start off, first things first with the smart food tech coalition. Can you explain a little bit about what this is, and then we'll kind of tweeze right apart and get more into

  Kristen Hovland 3:43

  it. Yeah, thank you for having me, Steve. It's great to be on your on your program, yeah. I mean, we have, you know, I, I work in a company that have developed a device that you can use on on foods and the primary, you know, aim that we go for is, you know, preserving the quality, but also, very importantly, you know, avoid food food waste. And as we all know, a static date stamp will actually never tell you whether a product is good or not, right? So, and this is a big problem we have today, you know, we throw away way too much food that, you know, otherwise could have been eaten, right? But, so this is what we've been trying to do something about now, when we present our product to the market and to key customers they love, you know, the concept, they love the product.

  Steve Statler 4:47

  And this is key pit, and we should go into more details on that later, but I think it is important to mention it. I'm glad you did. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, and I'm interrupting you just to express some enthusiasm. Them for this food is part of everyone's life, but the level of waste is huge, and it's right throughout the supply chain. But I think one of the worst things is in the consumer's home, and just at the point when it's going to be sold, when that use by date, sell by date, best by date, which I think was urban legend has it that it was introduced in the United States by Al Capone, who had a interest in bottling technology through his main business and the ability to print on bottles. And I heard that one of his nephews or niece got sick because of milk that was too old. And he lobbied forcefully for the introduction of Arun by dates he introduced and you got Al Capone saying, let's do this. I think it would be a good idea. Then maybe you listen a little bit more than the average person. So this is according to the BBC, and I respect the BBC, so that's my source for this amazing anecdote. But the point is, I don't know when Al Capone did this, but it was a very long time ago, and things have really moved on, haven't they, with traceability technology, products like keep it and why are we throwing all this food away? That's perfectly good. Yeah,

  Kristen Hovland 6:35

  that's, that's the, you know, that's the real question here, you know, why do we do that and and that's what we're trying to change, because we know that we could save a lot of food, you know, if new technologies, smart technology, smart food technology, would be, you know, allowed to enter the market and on equal terms, at least as as the date marking, as the date stamp, right? So this is what we're trying to do. I think, you know, there's, there's a lot of discussion today about best before used by and and we know through also studies, that the general public doesn't know the difference, right? So even though you can eat a product after a best before date, very seldom people do, right? So there's a lot of, you know, uncertainty around date marking, but also use buy. I mean, if your chicken has one day left, oof, there's a lot of consumers that will not take the chance, right? But it might happen that it could actually last five more days in your fridge. You don't know, right? Yes. So this is what the coalition is all about. What we want to do, we have gathered, you know, stakeholders, mainly in Europe, but we're also now having participation from the US, and we want more, by the way, and and we're trying to lobby the European Commission, you know, to open up that regulative for smart technology. Because if we can get that we know that we can save a lot of food that today are going to waste. So it's all about, you know, you know, improving sustainability in the whole food chain, right? Yeah, but it will, on the same token, it will also prevent consumers to eat products that are bad to prevent them getting sick, right? So it has both, you know, the benefits now, the challenge that that smart food technology providers have seen over the years is that when their products, and our product as well, is presented to potential customers. They again, they love it. They they think this is the right thing to do. But since they have to put the date stamp on anyway, and they are not allowed to sell the products beyond the date stamp date, then you know, the value of the smart technology is diminished, right?

  Steve Statler 9:26

  Makes sense. All, you know, all

  Kristen Hovland 9:29

  constituencies that we have been talking to, including, you know, food authorities and national authorities, and also the European Commission, they all agree to this. They all agree to it, but it's just, you know, they're, they're basically, what they're telling us is, okay. You need to gather, you know, companies behind this, customers, organizations that wants this, run tests and. Prove that this, you know, is is working, and then we will look at it. But you know when, when the commission is saying, look at it. Basically, we're talking about, you know, how many years? Well, pick your guess, you know. So, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a very tough, you know, initiative, but we have to do it, because we know that without these openings, this will be very difficult to bring these types of technologies to the market, and we need to get a chance to prove that they work, so that we also can get revenue, so that we can further develop even better solutions, right? Yes. So it's a little bit like a standstill at the moment, at least in Europe, you know, with with the smart food tech, food food technologies, and

  Steve Statler 10:57

  you said, in Europe, what's the situation elsewhere in the world, in particularly like United States. Do you have a perspective on that? I

  Kristen Hovland 11:06

  we know that there's been some few, let's say, testing of some type of, what we call TT eyes, which you know, is time temperature indicators. You you have a wide range of them, you know, everything from sniffing, you know, gasses inside you know, to just being indicating whether a product has had too high temperature or not. So sort of like a binary indicator. You know, our indicator is a dynamic indicator that counts down the actual shelf life days down to zero. So we know that there's been some testing on some other devices on the consumer market, very little, maybe a little bit more, you know, on the B to be side of of the food market, but, but I think again, the way I see it, maybe Europe has come a little bit longer than all the markets. I mean, when we look at Asia, for example, so very little that we see there. I think what, where you see this is predominantly in Europe and the US at the moment,

  Steve Statler 12:25

  so very little in what sense,

  Kristen Hovland 12:29

  in the sense that we haven't seen it on the market, not okay, the technologies, yeah, the technologies, okay, and, and, and then, not even in combination with date stamp, because that is, of course, also a possibility to use both the date stamp and the device. But then again, the date stamp is overruling given you know the regulations and the laws that we have at the moment. So it

  Steve Statler 12:58

  seems like there's three critical areas. One is getting the supply chains, the packaging, the technology in place. The other one is changing the regulations. Then the third one is actually educating the consumer, because they've been sane to since Al Capone got involved, at least here in the states that you know this, this date is, is, is true. I you know one thing. And told you it's been a while since we spoke, but we just commissioned a survey with YouGov of 1000 consumers in the UK and the US to ask them about exactly this, and we're asking them a ton of fascinating questions, but it basically centers around, you know, what's your experience and what's your level of trust of that use by sell by date, and have you ever found or do you feel like there's food that actually wasn't good, even though the sell by date said that it was and obviously the thing that we're focusing on here is the reverse, where the sell by date is has passed, and actually everything's fine. And to what degree do you respect that send? How do you feel about it? So I think we'll have a bit more data, hopefully within a month, that we can publish and contribute and raise the visibility of this that you touched on this a little bit. But can you I want to do two things before we wrap up and move on. To keep it, I want to just do a quick survey of the technologies that fall under this umbrella. And the other thing I want to talk about is that last bit of the education of the consumer. But you've got a coalition. What are the kinds of technologies that you see in the coalition today, and you might want to include in the coalition going forward?

  Kristen Hovland 14:56

  Yeah, I mean, basically what we have in the COVID. Addition today, I would say we have three, three categories of technologies. We have technology that is more a scale type of of devices that, for example, will show you whether you know. So you know some foods, let's, for example, frozen foods, for example, sometimes you will not detect on the way. Let's say they're coming from Asia, from the US, or from Europe, the other way, etc. You don't, you don't necessarily know if there's been a breach in, in, in the freeze chain, right? So these typical scale indicators will show you that, because they will activate once they reach a certain temperature, right? So that's that's one category. Another category is more sensing from the degradation of the actual product inside the packaging, basically sniffing the content or combination of the gasses that will be developed inside, in a way that will then set off, you know, the indicator to show that, All right, this is now expired. There's too much bacteria and gasses being developed for this product to be eaten, right and and the third that we have today is more where we are, where we we have a device that detects and registers temperature over time. So what we are doing is that we are calibrating that indicator to the shelf life profile in terms of how bacteria grow over temperature and time, right? So it basically mimics, you know, the shelf life profile that is set, let's say for a fish or a hamburger, a meat or, you know, a chicken filet, right? Yes. So we that's more a category of dynamic time temperature indicators,

  Steve Statler 17:18

  yes. And I guess is there another class where they're actually improving it? I guess the temperature over time indicators, and this is where my day job comes in. We we see handling errors, like us pallets of perishable products being left on the dock for an hour, sometimes longer, and not being put away. So if we can alert that, then, then, well, we can do two things. One is change the temperature over time, digital product passport associated with all those products, and the other one is, hopefully preempt any lasting damage. But there I'm advertising my company. We need to advertise yours, yeah, but but before we do that, there's another class, isn't there, where you're actually the packaging is, is improving the situation. You know, through chemistry, by absorbing certain chemicals. And

  Kristen Hovland 18:15

  that's true. That's true. You also have that, I mean, everything from but that's more technology in terms of maybe a modif modified atmosphere, what we call a map packaging, where you basically empty the oxygen and then you fill gas inside. That is harmless, of course, but that makes the makes the product last longer, right? But this can also be calibrated into the profile of an indicator, of course, yeah. And then you have, for example, on fruits, as you as you know, you can have a, you know, a cover. You can spray them with some kind of ingredients where, you know, both humidity and different things will not impact temperature as much, you know. So there are, I think there's, we are basically opening for all these types of smart food technologies. Yes, today we are more on the device part, but we are inviting, you know, other, you know, players that are complementary, let's say, to what we're doing as well. And I think that you pointed on that, you know, a next step for us is clearly to develop, or not necessarily develop, because we might have that already, but you know, to add functionality where you can actually read it off, and you can send this information, and you can actually act on it. And I think this is where, without talking about your product, but I think this is where you are very strong, you know. So I mean a combination of that, where you where you can monitor X. Exactly the status of your food product, but at the same time you can control it, you know, by Internet of Things, or you can connect it, you know, to systems. That's really where I think these types of technologies needs to arrive. I

  Steve Statler 20:18

  think I love this idea of the coalition, smart food tech coalition, because it's clear that, yes, there are different, competing approaches to this, but the biggest issue is legislation and education. It's about growing the category and making people aware that they shouldn't just kind of accept something that's was was printed based on a static formula that has no bearing on the reality, which varies tremendously, tremendously on how the product was was handled. And, you know, we see this. I mean, there's some great grocery stores, wonderful stores. I won't mention names, but beautiful shopping experiences, and I just don't buy produce from them, because I know their handling is so erratic that 50% of the time I'll get this beautiful looking Concur of produce, and a significant part of it is bad because of the handling issues, which they don't have the visibility on and the terrible thing is that a lot of companies, and I have heard this when we've been selling to companies, they've said, We don't want to know the truth. I think that's a line from a movie somewhere. They can't handle the truth. They don't want to have to throw stuff away. But that's just so short sighted, because they could know that there's a shortened life due to a handling mistake. It happened, but they're so much better off expediting it, putting a discount on it, selling it whilst it's still good, than stiffing the customer with something that tastes bad or makes them sick and and then you're going to lose the customer. You know, how many times is the customer going to put up with bad produce before they go somewhere else, where they know how to do this, or you see some of these food terrible outbreaks of food hygiene, where people get killed, And then the stock price plummets, and the insurance rates go go up. It's just makes me so frustrated that we, I mean, it's a systemic issue. It's not bad people. It's just everyone kind of working within their own bubble and not thinking in a joined up way. And I think you're putting a coalition together that will help that. Any last thoughts on, you know, how this information could be delivered to the customer? I would like to think that people are going to use their phones and digital product passports to do that, but the reality is, in the EU, they're kind of skating past food in deep with digital product passport technology. You can use it for your battery, which is good, yeah, but I want the strawberries. I want the salmon. I want the beef. I want the pork, all of this stuff. So, and I know that there's a sector of people that just don't want to use their phone with their their food. So, so what are the other alternative ways that you can communicate this,

  Kristen Hovland 23:23

  yeah, I think, you know, I mean our product at least, are presenting the consumer with a choice, very easy, readable, intuitive, scale, and this

  Steve Statler 23:37

  is keep it right,

  Kristen Hovland 23:38

  Yeah, which is keep it right, yeah, where you basically, if you, I mean, if, if what you are after is security on whether the product is edible or not, and how long I can actually keep it before I have to eat it, that's what we provide. Clearly. If you want to add more information to the end consumer in terms of, sort of like the passport, you know, where does it come from, where has it been? What's the origin, etc, etc, I think it will be very difficult to get, you know, to that other than, let's say, the QR code, the two to the codes and things like that. I mean, one of the things that you could do, of course, is that what you can pre print something clearly on the on the label. But now, I mean, if you follow them, and you might not, since you're from the US, but if you follow them in Europe, you know, some of the challenges that the European Commission has in terms of consumer information or food information to consumer there's a high debate, very, you know, tense debate these days on what. Kind of information should be on the package. And one of the things is that the commission wants more nutrition information on the package, right? So there will always be, you know, and as a brand person, we're working with the company working with Nestle and espresso, I know that you don't want your brand to have a huge sticker on it so you can't even see your product, right? So that's always been a sort of like a battle, you know, between the regulatories and, you know, the food and brand owners. So there's a certain limit to that. So I mean getting, you know, past that, without using, let's say, the QR codes, into the codes, I think will be very, very, very difficult. You could always, you know, there might be some Push Technologies, you know, but then again, you need to, I don't know what's the limit to how much a consumer should absorb today in terms of messaging and social media and everything. So I yeah, I think this will evolve, of course, but it needs to. I think. I think it needs to be taken step by step. I think the first thing that the consumer wants to know is, Can I eat it or not? And show me that very easily in a very intuitive and smart way. Then after that, I'm ready to get more information. You know? Yeah,

  Steve Statler 26:33

  yeah. I've told this anecdote before, but I one of my privileges is to work with Frank Yannis, who is the used to be at Disney, at Walmart, headed up food safety in both those places, and did as a public service. He was in the FDA and headed up, he was the architect of the Food Safety Modernization at rule 204, which is basically this thing that's actually coming into force January, in a year's time, 12 months time here in the States, that demands, requires, if you're shipping foods, there are high risk foods, sort of leafy greens and shellfish and other cheeses. You have to capture these shipping and receiving events, so that you can do a trace back in minutes if someone gets sick, rather than weeks, which can be a matter of life and death, and also value to the category that's being impacted by the by the food scale. Anyway, he's the architect of that brilliant guy done a bunch of thought leadership stuff with him. And you know, I was demonstrating this AI thing that we developed where you can talk to the food and it'll look at temperature over time, all that sort of stuff, and compare it with the sell by date. And he's like, this is basically replacing my role with my friends. So, you know, what's the number one question? Frank Ennis, his friends ask him, you know, they phone him up. It's a Sunday night, and it's like, you know, I've had this pork chop in the fridge and used by date is this and I've kept it, is it safe to eat? And just just amuses me tremendously, that you've got this titan of industry and government and his friends are asking him about whether it's safe to eat this food, and there's got to be a better way. And I think keep it has a solution. So let's, let's do a bit more of a clear kind of summary of what your company does that you're, leading,

  Kristen Hovland 28:42

  yeah. Well, you know, we go back. We actually, we've been in the market for close to 10 years now. Our company is an outspring from the University of Life Sciences in Oslo. It was, yeah, the, you know, the first trials were done, you know, back in 2013 into 2014 and then it's been sort of like steadily growing the use of the indicator on the Norwegian market. So we've been in the market for a while, but, you know, the first generation of indicators have been sort of like they, they are not connected as such, you know they, it's a standalone it's produced according to the shelf life profile. And the way that this has been applied in on foods is that you, you have, we have produced this own roles, these indicators. We have shipped the roles to the food producer. They have also, you know, invested in the machine that we have developed. And this is put on the line, you know, on the packaging line. So basically, that's, that's the first generation where you. You put the indicator on the pack, and you activate it at this at the same time, and then it starts to register temperature over time, right? So this is, this is the one we've been on the market with for, for almost 10 years now, in that saying that, you know, it's been sort of like a standalone system, right? But it's, it's been doing the job in these 1010, years. We've never had a food poisoning scandal. We've never had any problems whatsoever, and we've been allowed by the government in Norway to use both the indicator and the date stamp, so we haven't been able to replace the date stamp. But even though, you know, food retailers in Norway have seen, you know, the benefit of using it and and when we have done, by the way, you talked about, some some consumer research, we've done a lot of it, you know. And so we know that close to 90% of all consumers in Norway, they don't trust date stamp. You know, when we ask Yeah, when we ask our customers using the keep it indicator, more than 85% are saying that they trust it and that they eat the product past the date stamp. But we are not allowed to communicate that, or, you know, say to consumers that you can do that because that's then against the law, right? So this is the dilemma and the coalition, right, right?

  Steve Statler 31:27

  So how do you communicate the meaning of So, it's a color indicator, yeah,

  Kristen Hovland 31:31

  it's a, it's, it looks basically like a, like a thermometer, like, is that what you call it, yeah, yeah. Thermometer, yeah. So, thermometer, so, let's say your chicken lasts for eight days in four degrees, right then? Then we have a small device that where 12 days is printed on a scale, and then there's sort of like a a dark line that is diminishing over time. And you read it off nine, you know, 87654, down to zero, and then it's expired, right? So it's very easy to understand it. And this sits on the packaging so it, you know, it registers exactly the same temperature as the product itself. Yeah, right,

  Steve Statler 32:22

  I can see the benefit to the consumer. What's the benefit to the merchant and the manufacturer? Yeah,

  Kristen Hovland 32:30

  you know, you touched on that in terms of some customers saying that we don't take the chance to put this on right? And this is the case that we've been we've also experienced that without mentioning names. We've been at food retailers, and they say, you know, we love it, it's excellent. But you know what? We don't dare to put it on because we know that our coolers are not good enough, you know? So in other words, they're saying it's fine for us to sell bad products, which amazes me, you know, but anyway, astonishing, yes, astonishing, but, but you have customers like customers we've had in Norway who are thinking differently. They're saying that we know that we have some issues with our cold chain, and we want to fix it. So what they have, you know, what they have used our product, they keep it indicator for is to make sure that once the product arrives at the store, they have enough and the agreed number of shelf, shelf days left on the indicator, right, yes. If they see that they don't have that, they can come back, go back and say, Okay, there's something wrong here. We need to find out what it is, right? Then you could, for example, start with with data loggers and stuff like that, if you wanted that, right? Yes. So that's the first thing. The other thing is that they, they will avoid it's basically like a quality manager on top of each package, right? So it will tell you in store right away, if you have good cold chain merchandising, you know, routines in your store. And sometimes it's very difficult, you know, to detect that a freezer or cool or anything is too warm, right? But that the indicator will show you that, because if the indicator goes to zero faster than the date stamp, you know, there's something wrong, right? Yeah. So they have used it, you know, to improve the cold chain dramatically. Now, the third thing, very important, in terms of food waste as well, is that very many, as you probably know, food retailers today, there have been starting to sell out. Food that is close to expiry, right? So they, for example, put 40% or 50% rebate on the last day, but a lot of that is not sold out anyway. Why? You cannot be sure you know that it's actually edible, right? Because it's just a date stamp, right? Yeah,

  Steve Statler 35:21

  that's a really good point. Yeah. So

  Kristen Hovland 35:24

  by putting the keep it indicator on, it gives confidence to the consumer and their customers that this it's okay to eat it, even if the date stamp is on the last day, I can see that the indicator has two or three more days, so they buy it, right? So instead of wasting that and burdening their P and L, you know, they sell it instead, and their profitability goes up. Beautiful. I

  Steve Statler 35:55

  love the way your, your, your, you've obviously been doing this for a long time, your phrasing of the value proposition, and I guess you know, as I think about it more, and the kind of the strengths and weaknesses of our own offering, you're the nice thing about your product is you can do it incrementally. It's like with what we do, it's a big commitment. You're putting all this Bluetooth infrastructure in until the Nirvana of standards, where everything is tapped into ambient IoT. Nice thing is you can focus on a few key problem products, or whether sensitivity or you can have a vendor that decides, hey, I'm going to get more sales. I'm just thinking about it. From the manufacturer's perspective, I can get more trust from my consumers, because it's kind of utility. I'm slightly to waste this product because this manufacturer is is doing this. So it doesn't have to be systemic, and you're basically very simple. It doesn't impact the supply chain at all. Other than being a benchmark to improve it, you're, you're not putting extra infrastructure or any cost in place. Yeah, I guess cost is, I'm sure, one of the biggest questions you get asked. And I don't want you to, I don't expect you to share your your pricing and discount strategy, but presumably this is affordable. Uh,

  Kristen Hovland 37:23

  yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, if you with our first generation, I call it first generation, because I'm going to tell you a little bit about our coming generation. But our first generation, I would say, in to a certain degree, there's been a pricing versus value evaluation, because, since it's a standalone product, and we produce it ourself, and the customer cannot use it beyond the date, stamp, date, right? There's a certain equation there where the business case might be a little bit challenged, and because of that, we have now, we are at the end of developing a totally new generation of indicators, where all the costs that were were previously put into own production, sending out manufacturing applicator machines to put it on, etc, is gone, because what we've done now is that we have taken our technology, basically the content of The of the indicator, and we print it directly into the top film of the actual packaging. Okay? So this means that we can go with partners on the industrial side and print this industrially already, you know, plug and play, ready to be delivered to the food producer. They don't have to do anything other than what they do normally, right? Because the indicator will already be inside the foil when they laminate it on the chicken package, for example. So this helps us clearly on on the on the cost pricing equation, yes. And if we can, on top of that, get the regulation open for such types of technologies, because we still will have that challenge and that hurdle, then things are starting to look a little bit more promising. Very good and but the frustration Steve is that so does food authorities, you know, governments, you know they, they sort of all of them applaud this, but there is a stiffness in, in, you know. Saying, let's change this, you know, yeah, so that's, that's, that's the main, main challenge. And my, my, my fear, is that, and I've seen it in the past years, that some of the technologies that are coming up, they vanish because, you know, there's no, there's not an opening in the market. They will, they, they are not allowed to being tried, you know. So that's, that's my main concern, you know? Well,

  Steve Statler 40:26

  I think, yeah, you have to have an overwhelming benefit. That's, that's clear. I hear the term 10x ROI is just has to be so overwhelming and but, you know, change is hard. And I think, you know, we assume that the people at the top, the regulators, the CEOs, they have all the power. But the reality is, they're responding to the masses, the market perception. And the good thing is, the regulators and the decision makers, they all eat too. This is not a problem. It's not a minority problem every single one of us eats. And so the benefits are really broad. And so I think this work that you're doing both your for profit job and and this coalition have have a good outcome ahead, because it's a win, win, win, and it's just and if we can organize, raise awareness and build some optimism and commitment, then we can change the way things are done and make this better. And you know what better way to spend your life?

  Kristen Hovland 41:36

  Yeah, so now, Steve, you talked yourself into joining the coalition, so you're welcome.

  Steve Statler 41:41

  I'm up for it. I'm definitely up for it. And we want to, we want to contribute to what you're doing. Because I think even when a competitor wins, it helps raise the awareness about what what's possible, and change the demand, the expectations, the rules, and we got to do it. Yeah. So, Justin, how did you get your job? What's, what's your story?

  Kristen Hovland 42:13

  Ah, well, you know, my story is basically that I've been working within, you know, the food industry and with foods and you know, what I would call great brands. You know, for basically my whole career, I I was recruited to the Coca Cola company as a trainee, and I worked, you know, with coke for for 10 years. Then I've also worked in the Nestle organization. I I launched the Nespresso coffee capsule system in the Nordics over 11 years from from start. So I mean, you know, I've always been fascinated by brands, by, you know, consumer brands, in particular food brands. So when you know this a little bit on the side to food industry, but anyway, very you know, related to it came up and which, I think you know, in terms of the challenges that we have today, in terms of preserving, you know, good quality of foods. This was very interesting for me. So basically, after my Nespresso, you know, years this came up, I was asked, and I said, you know, I just love, you know, this concept and the product, and here I am. So who asked you? Well, I mean, it was, it was basically the company itself and the recruiter. So, I mean, I was actually just on my way out from, from Nespresso, and then that, I guess, was caught by somebody. I was contacted, you know, I came into this meeting room. They showed me this, you know, very simple product, you know, but I just thought it was extremely smart, you know, yeah, so that's how, you know, it reminded me a little bit about, you know, also the way that I was presented the Nespresso coffee capsule system. I never saw it before, you know. And this is, this is almost 20 years back now, you know. And I just thought, you know, Wow, such a brilliant, smart, you know, product is, you know, I really want to work with this. So that's, that's what caught, you know, you know my, you know, my attention and the passion for that product right away when it was presented to me, yeah,

  Steve Statler 44:31

  Coca Cola, such, literally, an iconic brand. And espresso, obviously, a lot more recent. But I just love and admire the way they have curated this modern, beautiful system and they the retail presentation is just amazing. Can you talk a bit more about that in the. Is obviously a very conscious strategy to make this not just a convenient way of getting great tasting beverages, but something that was a lifestyle brand. Is that was that the thinking, yeah,

  Kristen Hovland 45:15

  yeah, absolutely no. I mean, you know in Nestle, as as as you know them, and as we all know them, they've been huge, you know, in coffee for a long, long time. And I think there was an urge, you know, at, at, you know, the Nestle company, to try to do something more out of coffee than freestyle coffee, you know, sort of like powder coffees, right? And you know, when, you know, they're highly skilled, of course, in coffee. So when they went to all these coffee plantations, you know, around the world, and they saw all this fantastic coffee, it's a little bit like, you know, okay, why do we dry, freeze it, you know, and put it in the bin, you know? And so, so they said, you know, let's put the team on this and see if we cannot, you know, utilize better, you know, or not necessarily better, but utilize, in addition to our, you know, main business, something that is much more high, high you know, high end, high quality, high scale. So that's where what it came from. And I know that, you know, the sort of like the task that this group got was sort of like, this is going to be resembling as much as it can, sort of like the Italian coffee experience, right? But it needs to be done in a way that is extremely easy, easy to do, and easy, sort of like not to do anything wrong, meaning that the quality is assured. And this is then how they came up with this capsule system where, basically you cannot do anything wrong. But anyway, it's buttons and fumes and pressure and stuff that you, you know, you have enough to sort of like, feel that, you know this is, this is a good coffee moment. And adding to that, of course, to bring that sort of like that, you know, that experience even better is all the packaging around it, you know, with the Nespresso boutiques, you know, with the colors of the capsules, with the stories from, you know, the from the coffee plantations, with these special editions, you know, with the tasting in the coffees and and on top of that, you know, taking George Clooney as as an ambassador on board, you know, then it was sort of like, oh, wait, it's, it's quite a nice package. So, no, I think the company has been brilliant in doing that. And it was really a pleasure for me to, you know, to be a part of that. And, and we were, we were pioneering, you know, clearly on coffee, as we're trying to do, you know, with KEEP IT technologies and smart tags as well.

  Steve Statler 48:11

  Did you find that you had to make the case to change the standard package for your market at all? Or was it a, you know, global, globally applicable, no, no, no localization required

  Kristen Hovland 48:25

  for Nespresso. You mean, yeah, no, well, I can tell you that. And you know, the management team at Nespresso will know this at the time that you know it was quite a challenge actually, to bring, you know, the first version, you know, the first portfolio of coffees, to the Nordics. Because we are, we are a long cup country, right? So, I mean, like in the US, we like the longer cups, you know, big warm, Big Gulps and stuff, not as much, maybe, or as big as in the US, but, but even though, you know, it's a long cup, and, you know, the first years, the Nespresso concept was only for espressos, very small cups we were not used to, sort of Like sipping, you know, strong short espressos, you know. So we had to sort of like, yeah, twist that a little bit to say that, you know, on certain variants, you could actually make a longer cup. But eventually, you know, when it wasn't only us from the Nordics, you know, I was managing the Nordic Region. But also the Germans, for example, they are also long cop, you know. And the Americans came on board, and then the pressure, sort of, you know, built to say that, all right, we need to come out with, you know, a longer cup version. And that's how the lungo capsule came about, you know. So you. Yeah. So it wasn't that easy in the beginning, but, but I think that the smartness and the quality and the packaging, you know, of of the system sort of, yeah, overturned, you know, the, you know, the actual want of a longer cup for, you know, the Norwegian, the Swedes, the Finns and the Danes, you know. So

  Steve Statler 50:22

  that's fascinating. Yeah, I in the early days of willyot, one of our early employees out in the field was someone who's very dear to me, Roberto, and you can tell from his name, he's Italian. And when he started working at willio, we had to buy Italian coffee beans, and we had to buy those little espresso cups, just huge, very kind of athletic man, but he's drinking with a stick. And I just, yeah, I really enjoyed that. And then we know we went on our holiday to Rome, and I'm like, yeah, that's, that's what they do here. Yeah, okay, we need to, I realize I'm taking us down unexpected spaces. So I do want to ask you about your three songs. Were you able to think of three songs, one at a time, that had some meaning for you. Yeah,

  Kristen Hovland 51:22

  I actually, there's a lot of them, but, I mean, you know, talking to you, it brings me a little bit back to, you know, some of the years that I had, you know, at in the US actually might be able to talk a little bit about that, that, you know, one of the things, or one of the songs that I that is always sort of like, in the back of my mind is, is a song that I very often sort of walk up to or listen to or heard on the radio, you know, during my college days. Oh, so this, this was, and this is way back. Of course, I'm an old guy, you know, but So, so this is actually Huey Lewis and the News, if you remember that band, and, yeah, and they, they had several, but one of them that really stuck with me was stuck with you, yeah. Very good. So this song is sort of like, and I think the reason why is that, you know, I, I was studying in the US, you know, in in the 80s and the 90s. And this was really a fun period, you know. And everything was sort of like, off, right? And it was a up upbeat, type of, you know, all American, you know, pop songs that really stuck with me. So that's one of them. And every time I hear that, it brings me, sort of like, back, brings me back to Oregon,

  Steve Statler 52:58

  Oregon, yeah, well, that I can relate to all of that 80s, what a wonderful era in music and my life, as well as in college. And I ended up marrying Oregonian and living in Oregon for 10 years. So that rings some bells with me. So what's song number two?

  Kristen Hovland 53:16

  Yeah, so song number two, so I'm sort of like keeping in the US for the moment, right? So, yeah, one of the songs that I very often put on with full full blast, basically, it's not rock or black metal or anything like that, but, but I find that sometimes, you know, if things are a little bit tough, let's say, or you feel, you know, very up and very happy, and you've sort of like, come through something that was really challenging for you, and sometimes you need to reward your you Know yourself, right? Because it's not always somebody else around you will do that, right? Yeah. So I'm pretty good at that. I'm good at, you know, in the evenings, putting on the film or looking watching some sport, and bring the chips out and a beer and stuff like that, and celebrate myself, right? So, so I don't need too much from from my my, my surroundings. But one, one of, one of the other songs, that is, I think is a very some, you know, gives me good vibes, is actually a song from Christopher cross, and it's called, alright, and in this lyrics is quite a lot about things, you know, sometimes being tough, right, and and challenging, but you know, you're going to make it, it's going to be all right, right? So I so that's, that's my second song that that I actually often. And still put on, and I have it on my playlist, you know, my personal playlist, you know, on Spotify. Yeah,

  Steve Statler 55:08

  I think developing a kind of an ethic of self emotional, self sufficiency, it's a recipe for happiness, isn't it? If you go into relationships and you're not needing them, but you're appreciating them. But that self sufficiency, I think, is very good for your mental health, and it's attractive to other people as well.

  Kristen Hovland 55:32

  No, I think if you don't get it from the surroundings, you know, create it yourself. You know, absolutely.

  Steve Statler 55:38

  And Christopher cross, I've got us. I don't know if you've seen it on HBO over here, there's a yacht rock documentary that explores the whole genre that he's supposed to be in, and it includes a lot on like the what's his name, Michael from the Doobie Brothers and Stevie Dan. And just Yeah, amazing, amazing genre. So if you haven't seen that yacht rock documentary, I would check that out. Okay, love the first two. What's, what's number three,

  Kristen Hovland 56:12

  yeah, number three. It's a little bit in the same but since I'm keeping to my, sort of like my, us, sort of part of my life. The third one is also from that period. You know, I watched a movie when I was studying there that was called, I think it was called, running scared. It's old movie, but it's, it's a movie with these two guys, you know, it's Billy Crystal,

  Steve Statler 56:53

  oh yeah, wonderful him

  Kristen Hovland 56:55

  and Gregory Hines, very good. And they, they, you know, in this movie, it's, it's, I think it's fabulous, you know, they're two, they are two police, cops, you know, in Chicago, I think, and there's all, and it's, there's a lot of trouble, you know, it's cold, and it's, you know, it's always, they're getting, you know, the lowest end of the stick, and everything is sort of like difficult, right? And then the guys say, Hey, let's go on vacation. And they go to Florida, right? And then eventually they end up, you know, and they're having an extremely nice time there and everything. And they basically, in the end, in the movie, they move over there, you know, I think they even became cops there, I, I'm not sure. But anyway, in that movie, and when they are sort of like playing around on the beach and having fun, and they are in bars and everything, which, which I, you know, resembles quite a lot how I looked at my time. You know, in the US, when I was there, they played this theme song, you know, by Michael McDonald. Michael McDonald, that

  Steve Statler 58:03

  was the Michael. I was searching his name for Michael

  Kristen Hovland 58:07

  McDonald, right? Yeah, and, and, and it's called the sweet freedom. Very good. And it's a little bit, as you can see now with these three, it's a little bit like in the same strong, stronger, you know, as and so I like these up upbeat, yeah? That, that, you know, builds energy in you, right? So and hope and the good things. So that's my thin

  Steve Statler 58:38

  love it, yeah? Michael McDonald's, like this, Zelig Forrest, Gump character popping up in all these places. You know, he had his own solo career, and he was singing for Stevie Dan and just in so many different groups to do brothers. Great music. Kristen, thanks so much. I've really enjoyed our conversation. I appreciate you coming on the podcast, and I hope we can stay in touch.

  Kristen Hovland 59:05

  Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.

  Steve Statler 59:10

  So that was Kristen COVID, who I really enjoyed talking to. There's just some people that have a great vibe and great philosophy and our fun and get things done. And Kristen, in my mind, ticks all those boxes. Thank you for staying to the end. And Elizabeth, I hope you don't hear this, because you should be off to sleep by now. If this podcast has done its job for those of you that are awake, then please help me to help as many people as possible. Tell them about the show, refer people like it, all that stuff. Now, looking forward to next time. I really appreciate your tuning in.